Ask Linda #381-Double hit

Linda, 

I was in a stroke play round with my uncle. He was about 10 feet off the green. When he chipped the ball he hit the ground behind the ball, which caused the ball to move before the club actually made contact. Is that considered a double hit, since the ball moved from striking the ground then the club hitting the ball?

Thanks,

Lou

Dear Lou,

Yes. Your uncle must count his stroke and add a penalty stroke. When his club contacted the ground, he put the ball in motion. The club subsequently hit the ball. This constitutes a double hit under Rule 14-4 [Decision 14-4/3].

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #380-Multiple provisionals

Hi Linda,

What happens when you hit multiple provisional balls in the following scenario:

1) Original stroke (possibly lost)

2) Provisional ball  (iffy)

3) Provisional ball  (iffy again)

4) Provisional ball  (topped near to the ladies tee box and playable)

The original ball and first two provisionals were much further ahead of the 3rd provisional near ladies tee box. 

In the interest of time, the 3rd provisional ball is played again from near the Ladies tee box (my 7th stroke).  After playing the shot, however, my original ball is found.  Can I then play my original ball (without penalty) even though I have already hit the 3rd provisional ball again before looking for the original ball?

Lou

Dear Lou,

The sole purpose of hitting a provisional ball is to save time. That is why the rule (27-2) is in the book. Your procedure was correct. You hit the provisional that traveled a shorter distance than the original and the two prior provisionals, and then found the original before hitting the provisional from the place where the original was likely to be. Once the original was found (presumably within the five-minute period allotted for search), you must abandon the provisional and proceed with the original. You have incurred no penalty strokes.

Since you hit several provisionals, I would like to go over the scoring if you had not found your original ball. If you don’t find the original, and you do find the first provisional, then you lie three with the first provisional, and your next shot will be your fourth.

If you don’t find the original or the first provisional, and you do find the second provisional, then you lie five with the second provisional and your next shot will be your sixth.

If the only ball that can be found is the third provisional, that ball lies seven where it settled near the women’s tee, and your second strike of that ball is your eighth shot on the hole.

Don’t ever be embarrassed to hit several provisional balls. Even if you have to hit three or more, it still takes less time than a trek back to the tee when your original turns out to be lost.

Linda   

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #379-Lifting another player’s ball

Dear Linda,

I play in a group of about a dozen friends every Saturday and sometimes on Wednesday evenings. There is some betting, and one of the times is a formal league. Some of the players mark other players’ balls on the green to expedite the pace of play, if a player has a difficult time on a certain hole or is raking a bunker and is lagging behind a bit.  I do not like other players marking my ball or otherwise touching it while it is in play, and I believe that it is a bad practice since each player is responsible for his own ball. They will even mark others' golf balls during outings or tournaments.

Please let me know the proper etiquette and rules that we should follow for this matter.

Thank you.

Lou

Dear Lou,

There is no penalty in stroke play if a fellow competitor marks and lifts your ball without your authority [Decision 20-1/4. This Decision cites Rule 18-4, which states that there is no penalty in stroke play for moving a fellow competitor’s ball.]

In match play, if your opponent lifts your ball without your authority, your opponent incurs a one-stroke penalty for moving your ball [Decision 20-1/2, Rule 18-3b].

No one should be lifting another player’s ball without that player’s permission. If you do not want other competitors to lift your ball, tell them. It would be poor etiquette indeed to lift another player’s ball when he has expressly told you not to do so.

Personally, I have no objection to other players marking my ball when the purpose is to speed up play. However, I would never dream of lifting another player’s ball without first securing their permission.

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #378-Ball in drainpipe

Linda, my ball was hit just off the fairway by about a foot into a short-cut rough. I watched the ball roll and then disappear into what appeared to be low ground. It was my second shot on a par 5. When I walked over to my ball I discovered the low ground was an unmarked drain hole that ran off into a stream just left of the rough about 6-7 feet. Would that be considered a lost ball, would I take a drop or go back and re-hit? Would there be a penalty for rolling into an unmarked hazard?

Thanks for your help.

Lulu

Dear Lulu,

I am not certain, from your narrative, whether the drainpipe is through the green or in the water hazard. If it is through the green, then your ball is lost in an immovable obstruction. You will drop a ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, no closer to the hole [Rule 24-3b(i)]. There is no penalty.

If the drainpipe is in the water hazard, then there is no free relief. You must proceed under any of the relief options in Rule 26-1 for a ball in a water hazard and add one penalty stroke to your score [Decision 24-3b/1].

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #377-Challenging a competitor’s score

Dear Linda ,

My son played in a recent tournament and there was a very awkward situation created.

My son played 6 over par and the other competitor played 8 over par. They both played in different four ball groups. Now the player who was coming in second complained to the referee that he believes that the marker and the player have not written correct scores and that they should be counter-checked .

Request please advise:

                  Can the player raise such an objection and complain?

                  Is the referee liable to hear his complaint and take action?

                  If the marker and player report that the scores entered are correct, does the referee counter-check this claim by consulting the caddies and other members of the group?

                  What should be the duty of the referee and how should he resolve such an issue?

Thanks ,

Lulu

Dear Lulu,

This is a difficult question to answer, as I do not know why the other player challenged your son's score. Here is a general answer.

In a stroke play competition, anyone who witnesses an incorrect procedure may report it to the Committee. For example, if someone observes a player move a ball and not replace it, and the player does not add two strokes to his score for the hole, then he should report his observation to the Committee, preferably before the player has signed his scorecard. The Committee will then talk to the player and anyone else who might have observed the infraction, and then make a ruling.

In your son’s tournament, if the other player observed an infraction that your son did not include in his score, he was within his rights to report it to the Committee. If he observed your son recording a 4 on a hole where he knew your son had scored 6, such a claim should also be reviewed by the Committee. The Committee will then interview as many observers as necessary to rule on the complaint.

However, if the other player is challenging your son’s score for no particular reason other than he doesn’t believe he could have scored so low, then a simple check with your son and his marker should be sufficient to verify the score. If evidence came to light, after the card was signed and turned in, that your son had signed for a score lower than he actually shot, he would be disqualified.

It is not unreasonable to ask that the scores be reviewed, but unless the player making the request has a specific reason for doing so, and another person can back his claim, then your son’s score should stand.

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #376-Counting strokes, ball OB

Dear Linda,

My husband and I have two different understandings on how to score an out-of-bounds ball.

If you hit your ball off the tee out of bounds and you put down another ball and hit it into

the fairway - when you get to the ball and hit again what is your count so far???

Thanks,

Lulu

Dear Lulu,

Count all your strokes plus the one-stroke penalty for hitting out of bounds.

The first tee shot is stroke #1. The penalty for going out of bounds is one stroke [Rule 27-1b]. 1+1=2. The second tee shot (the one that lands happily on the fairway) is stroke #3. The stroke you make in the fairway will be stroke #4.

The best part of your question, for me, is knowing that you understand that whenever a ball goes out of bounds, your next stroke must be taken where you hit your previous stroke.

So who was right?

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #375-Ball hits ball

Linda, here is an unusual (to say the least) situation which I wonder if you can rule on. Yesterday, a golfer in our group hit her ball (which was in the middle of the fairway) which immediately struck another ball about 20 metres in front of her. The hit ball ricocheted at high speed into the rough –rough a bit dense– and after a good few minutes it looked like we weren't going to find it. Conversation then was wonder what the rule is here – e.g., is the player allowed to drop a ball on the spot where it was when struck by the other ball? We eventually spotted the ball (much further on than we'd actually realized), so the question is hypothetical, but we're still interested in what the rule would have been if we hadn't found the ball.

Thanks

Lulu

Dear Lulu,

When a ball at rest is moved by another ball in motion, the moved ball must be replaced [Rule 18-5]. If the ball cannot be found, place another ball on the spot. Any other ruling would be unfair to the player whose ball was moved.

The player who hit the ball that moved the other ball must play her ball as it lies [Rule 19-5a].

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #374–Balls touching in bunker

Dear Linda,

Recently I played a shot into a bunker where my ball came to rest touching my partner's ball. Subsequently I marked my ball a club length away with a tee in the sand and allowed my partner to clear her ball out of the bunker first. Before replacing my ball and playing my shot, I racked the sand to flatten the surface. I placed my ball back on its original spot (not dropping it from shoulder height) and then hit my shot.

I wonder whether in doing so I have improved my lie, as the sand was wet and hard until I raked it, which helped to loosen the sand and gave me an easier shot to handle. Did I breach any rules and would there be an appropriate way to resolve such a scenario?

Please kindly advice.

Regards,

Lou

Dear Lou,

When you lift a ball out of a bunker because it interferes with another golfer’s play, and his shot subsequently alters your lie, you are required to re-create that lie as well as you can and place the ball in that lie [Rule 20-3b (iii)].

It would appear from your narrative that you improved your lie. The penalty for doing so is two strokes (loss of hole in match play).

When it is clear that another player’s shot is going to alter the lie of a ball you were asked to lift, you should make careful note of your lie and request that a fellow competitor or opponent observe your procedure. In your situation, you should have filled in the hole made by your partner’s stroke, tamped it down to restore the hard surface, and placed your ball on the spot where it originally lay.

If the two balls had not been in a bunker, then you would place your ball in a similar lie within a club-length and no closer to the hole.

Logic should dictate that the Rules of Golf would not permit you to improve the lie of a ball that you were required to lift and replace. You should also know that this is a situation where you are not permitted to clean the ball. Lift and hold it carefully between two fingers and do not drop it into your pocket.

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #373a-Rule 6-3a amended for 2012

Dear readers,

I plan to review the 2012 changes to the Rules in January, when they will take effect. However, since the issue of starting late will be one of those changes, perhaps it is best that I mention this one now.

Starting in January, players will no longer be disqualified for arriving late at the first tee. The penalty will be two strokes (loss of the first hole in match play) if they arrive within five minutes of their starting time. Players will still be disqualified if they arrive later than the five-minute grace period.

Ask Linda #373-Late arrival

Hi Linda,

Is there a penalty if someone shows up late for her tee time in a tournament?

Lulu

Dear Lulu,

There certainly is, Lulu. Players who do not arrive at the first tee at their assigned time are disqualified [Rule 6-3].

The Committee may soften that blow by stating, in the conditions of the competition, that players who arrive within five minutes of their assigned time will be permitted to compete. In match play, the penalty under this condition is loss of the first hole. In stroke play, the penalty is two strokes [Rule 6-3, Note].

Please note that all players in the group must be on time. Consider three players assigned a 9:00 a.m. start time. Two arrive at 9 and tee off. The third arrives at 9:02, just in time to tee off after the first two players. That third player is disqualified. If the 5-minute condition were in effect, then that third player would start her round with a two-stroke or loss-of-hole penalty.

The Committee is allowed to waive the disqualification penalty in exceptional circumstances. If a player would have arrived on time if she didn’t have to stop at the scene of an accident to provide medical assistance or make a statement to the police, that would qualify as “exceptional.” However, such misfortunes as getting lost, getting stuck in traffic, being held up by an accident, or your car breaking down are not acceptable excuses [Decision 6-3a/1.5].

Always allow plenty of time to get to your tournament. If you arrive too early, you can always practice, socialize, or just relax. If you arrive late, you will lose your opportunity to compete.

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #372-GUR near bunker

Hi Linda–

At our usual Wednesday competition, at the 3rd tee par 5, my partner hit his approach shot and landed in a bunker. To hit his shot, he would have one leg standing in a GUR just outside the bunker.

A dispute arose:

(1) Is he entitled to any relief?  His  BALL is NOT in the GUR but in the hazard although one of his legs or even both his legs are standing in a GUR.

(2) If he is entitled to relief, how is that to be taken? He said he is entitled to relief by dropping the ball IN THE BUNKER not nearer the hole so that he does not stand in the GUR.

(3) Can he hit the ball in the bunker as the ball lies, still with his feet in the GUR?

We could not find any ruling in the Decisions for Golf Rules. Please help.

Thank you

Lou

Dear Lou,

A player is entitled to free relief if ground under repair interferes with his stance or the area of his intended swing [Rule 25-1a]. Since the player in your scenario had to place one foot in GUR in order to take his stance, he was entitled to relief. However, his relief was somewhat restricted, because his ball was in a bunker.

The player has three choices:

1. Play the ball as it lies. There is no requirement that you take relief from GUR, unless the Local Rules specify that players are not permitted to enter GUR. An example of such prohibition would be if the area designated as GUR were newly planted grass.

2. Drop the ball in the bunker within one club-length of the nearest point of relief [Rule 25-1b (ii) a].

3. Drop a ball behind the bunker under penalty of one stroke anywhere on the line-of-sight to the hole [Rule 25-1b (ii) b].

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #370b-Response to #370

Dear Linda

If you don't mind I would like to respectfully disagree with your opinion regarding older gents playing from different tees in competition with younger players.

Firstly, in England the older gents' handicaps are calculated from returns in competition played from the same tees as other full members.

Secondly there is a plethora of (often midweek daytime) competitions for older (retired) players.

Thirdly, in my experience older gents, by virtue of more golfing and life experience, have a stronger psychological game and better (more pragmatic) course management - such skills often prove in practice to be more valuable than the wide shoulders and muscled forearms of the 'hooray Henrys' trying to 'rip the cover off the ball.'

Fourthly, as a gent approaching old age, I would be embarrassed by special considerations.

Fifthly, in the English club game, persons actively pressing for special measures would generally be regarded with little sympathy as 'pot hunters.'

I have recently been approached by a senior member in my club to be his 4-ball partner next season - I have enthusiastically accepted his offer due to the fact that although he struggles to reach many greens in regulation, he consistently plays straight and therefore, after his handicap deduction, is always 'there or thereabouts.' This will enable me, using him as a foil, to play a more adventurous game. I confidently predict that this will make us a difficult pair to beat.

Kind regards

Lou

Dear Lou,

I am impressed by your attitude, your analysis, and your character. It would be difficult to argue against such statements.

In defense of my opinion, allow me to describe my experience as a director of men’s tournaments that are open to players from different clubs in the southern half of New Jersey. When I started in this position, the organization was losing many competitors from the over 70 age bracket. All the men were competing from the same tees, and many of the older gentlemen dropped out because they felt they were no longer able to compete successfully against players who could outdrive them by 50 to 100 yards. The mismatch of distance was too discouraging.

Rather than lose our elder statesmen, I lobbied to allow them the option to play from the senior tees. At the same time, they would be restricted to net competition only, as gross competition from different tees is inherently unfair. The result of this policy change was that many of these gentlemen returned to competition, and brought along a number of friends. I have a great deal of respect for these wily old veterans, and I am happy to see them return to the fold. These seniors (over age 70) have the option to play from the standard or senior tees – the longer hitters generally opt for the standard tees; the players who have lost considerable distance with age generally opt for the senior tees. I trust that the handicap system evens the competition, as it was intended to do. I also trust that players honestly choose their competition tees. Much of golf relies on trust and honesty. 

In my little corner of the world, handicaps are calculated differently from the way they are in England. Players record scores from just about every round they play, and the differential that goes into calculating the handicap takes into account both the USGA Course Rating®, which is “the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for a scratch golfer under normal course and weather conditions,” and the Slope Rating®, which represents the relative difficulty of a course for a bogey golfer compared to a scratch golfer [USGA Handicap System, Section 2: Definitions]. Players are, therefore, often recording scores played from different sets of tees from different –or even from the same– golf courses. Also, there is not a “plethora” of competitions for seniors, except perhaps at their own individual clubs.

I love your attitude, Lou. Perhaps I am too soft-hearted, but I would rather see the oldsters competing from shorter tees than not at all.

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #370a-Response to #370

Linda:

I have some serious issues with your reply to this question regarding hole handicaps in match play events when players are playing from different tees. Your answers seem to imply that hole handicaps are based on the relative difficulty of the holes, (presumably in relation to par?), for a given set of tees.  For example, you write: "In order to help make your competition fair, the Committee will need to rank the handicap holes from the senior tees in their order of difficulty." As you know, of course, this is NOT the USGA criteria that is used to establish hole handicaps. The number one handicap hole is the hole where a higher handicap player most needs a stroke to secure a halve with a lower handicap player in match play, and so forth for the number two handicap hole, etc.  It is NOT necessarily the most "difficult" hole. So I simply don't agree with the idea that one person, or even the event Committee, can simply arbitrarily re-rank holes, for a different set of tees, while at the same time preserving a fair competition. What do you do if two persons are playing a match from the Golds and the Committee has re-ranked the holes based on criteria that is not in accordance with the USGA Handicap Manual? It seems to me that this is much like a few people gathering at the bar after a round and establishing  course hole handicaps based on their own personal opinions. 

It is a lot more complicated than you seem to make it, and I'm not sure how one can make it otherwise.  I have thought about this matter a bit, and I don't have an answer to the "fairness" issue when a competition is match play and there are players playing from different tees.  My current view is that there may simply be some inherent "unfairness", but which may well balance out when opponents are  competing from different tees. In any case, I'm not buying into your "solution."

I enjoy your posts very much, and think that you almost always give very complete, clear, and accurate answers to your readers' questions, but I do have problems with your solution to this particular issue. I'm looking forward to your response; maybe I'm just not following what you are proposing. 

Best Regards, 

Lou

Dear Lou,

As a woman who often plays matches against men, I am particularly aware of the difficulty of playing a fair match when a course has neglected to rank the handicap holes from different sets of tees. My home course, for example, has only one set of rankings. On the #2 handicap hole, the forward tees are over 100 yards shorter than the standard men’s tees. The hole is a challenging par 5 for men, and a manageable par 5 for women. By observing the handicap allocation, I will win the hole with a net birdie a majority of the time. If the order of handicap holes were properly assigned to the forward tees, following USGA-recommended guidelines, the hole in question would have a higher number for women playing from the forward tees, and I would instead receive a stroke on a hole where it is more difficult for me to break even with a male opponent.

The point I was trying to make in my column is that the order of handicap holes is not necessarily the same when golfers are playing from different sets of tees. Committees should be cognizant of this, and take the time to rank the holes for each set of tees. If a tournament is being played at a course where there are no separate rankings, it is my opinion that the Committee has a responsibility to correct this problem. It clearly has permission to do so from the USGA [USGA Handicap System, 9-3a, third paragraph].

I will readily admit that I erred in stating that the handicap holes are assigned in order of difficulty. As you correctly point out, the procedure is a bit more complicated. This was a shortcut I used to avoid launching into a detailed explanation of how to rank holes. I was trying to address the reader’s question of how to compete fairly from different tees when the handicap holes are not ranked differently. My concern was to point out that in many cases they should be ranked differently, and to remind Committees everywhere of this responsibility.

I often receive questions where I have to choose between a brief answer that gets right to the heart of the matter, or a more complicated discussion that addresses all aspects of the question but runs the risk of losing the reader’s interest. In opting for brevity here, I misspoke about a secondary matter. Thank you for the reminder to be more precise in my language when I gloss over side issues.

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #371-Second repair of ball mark

Hi Linda,

Rule 16-1c says that the player may repair a ball mark, and thus results in the exception to the rule that the line of putt cannot be touched.  What constitutes "repair?" Can a player use his putter to press down an area on the line of the putt which is slightly raised from previous ball mark repair?  For example, Player A repairs a ball mark on the green, but did not press down smoothly on that ball mark.  Player B comes later where that ball mark is on his line of putt.  Can Player B press down that area without actually using some sort of tool to "repair" the mark?

Thanks,

Lou

Dear Lou,

A player is permitted to repair a ball mark that has been previously repaired. He does not need to use a special tool. The only stipulation is that the mark be clearly identifiable as a ball mark [Decision 16-1c/1].

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #370-Match play from different tees

Linda–

There is a season long Match Play event with the local men’s club. The bracket is a random draw and gets about 24 of the club members.

It’s played with 100% handicaps and usually the matches are pretty good. We have players of all skill levels participate from the 20+ to single digit players. It's a fun event that let's you play other guys than your regular foursome.

So this year there is a "senior" entrant and there has been some discussion about how his matches should be played. He's 70+ and plays the GOLD forward tees regularly and carries a 24 handicap.  In other events he has done very well and often wins.

He wants to play the forward tees for the match play event.  Should this be allowed?  I understand the handicaps will be adjusted, but isn't it against the spirit of the event? 

If he insists on playing the forward tees, would it be acceptable to play the GOLD alongside him? 

My biggest gripe is that he is playing a different course. On some holes there is a significant advantage to the point that the handicap holes should actually be different.  Isn't there also a mental aspect of match play that you lose when you and your opponent aren't playing from the same tees?

Thanks,

Lou

Dear Lou,

The Committee is permitted to set as a Condition of the Competition that all play will be from the standard men’s tees. It may also decide to permit men over a certain age to move up to the senior tees. There are additional adjustments that the Committee can make to ensure the fairest match play or stroke competition in this situation.

You are running a handicap event. Handicapping systems are designed to ensure fair competition among players of different skill levels. I am in favor of allowing men over the age of 70 to play from the senior tees in competitions. However, the competition cannot be fair if there is a significant yardage or difficulty difference on one or several holes and the handicap number assigned does not reflect those differences.

In order to help make your competition fair, the Committee will need to rank the handicap holes from the senior tees in their order of difficulty. Seniors are, indeed, playing a “different” course, and the ranking of the holes must reflect that difference.

I directed a golf tournament at Cape May National in southern New Jersey several years ago. The fourth hole is a challenging Par 5 that is 521 yards and is ranked the #1 handicap hole for men. The same hole, played from the senior tees, is only 348 yards and eliminates a long carry over a water hazard. Because of obvious differences in difficulty on this particular hole and several others, the course scorecard should have shown a separate handicap hole ranking for senior men, but it does not. Therefore, when I set up the course for the tournament, I re-ranked the holes from the senior tees. This is recommended for your course if you have holes that become significantly easier when men move up to the senior tees.

My personal feeling is that the 70-year old gentleman should be permitted to play from the senior tees. Competitions from different sets of tees can be fair. If the course has been rated correctly, the handicap holes properly designated for the different tees, and the handicaps calculated to reflect the course and slope ratings for each set of tees, then players should feel comfortable competing against opponents using the senior tees.

Linda 

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda #369–Extra clubs in bunker

Dear Linda,

I have read your previous columns, which said you could take your whole bag into the bunker if you wanted. I have a question:  I took two clubs into the bunker, as I was not sure how high I would have to hit the ball to get it out. I dropped one club in the sand after I got into the bunker and used my second club to get out. I did not touch the sand with my club in my hand; I just dropped it. Was I wrong? And, where should you put your bag if you take it into the bunker?? 

Thanks,

Lulu

Dear Lulu,

You may place the extra club, or the whole bag, in the sand. There is nothing wrong with dropping your club in the bunker, but there is no reason to do so, since you are permitted to place it.

Placing an object in the sand does not constitute testing the condition of the hazard, unless you do something silly like push the sand around or jam it into the sand [Decision 13-4/0.5].

You might want to read Decision 13-4/0.5, which gives examples of what would constitute testing the condition of the hazard, and what would not.

Linda

Copyright © 2011 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.