Ask Linda 1945-Discover 15 clubs in bag

Hi Linda,

Hope you're doing well. 

Let's suppose I start my round (stroke play) from Hole #1. After completing the 6th, I find out that there are 15 clubs in my bag.

Do I penalise myself two strokes on holes 6 and 5 or on holes 1 and 2?

Had a situation once: After round completed on hole 18, a player had 15 clubs. The argument was: 2-stroke penalty (total 4 strokes) on 18 and 17 and another said: Penalty applies on 1st and 2nd hole.

Kindly clarify on what holes the penalty applies.

Thanks,

Lou from Bahrain

Dear Lou,

The penalty is applied to the first two holes where the breach happened [Rule 4.1b, Penalty in Stroke Play]. In the situation you describe, where you began the round with 15 clubs and did not discover your mistake until the sixth hole, you would be penalized two strokes each on holes #1 and #2 (total of four penalty strokes).

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1944-Measure relief area by eye

Hi Linda

Does one have to measure the size of a relief area with the longest club in one’s bag, except the putter?

Can it be estimated by eye?

Kind regards,

Lou from Tiverton, Devon, UK

Dear Lou,

You may estimate the relief area by eye. Personally, I would not bother measuring with a club except in a very serious tournament.

Follow-up question from Lou:

Thanks, Linda. Where does it state that in the Rules?

My response:

Different Rules will limit the size of the relief area to one or two club-lengths from the reference point, but none of them states that the player must physically measure the relief area. Another player or an official may require a measurement if the ball rolls so far that it is questionable whether the ball rolled outside the relief area.

The Definition of “Relief Area” states, “The relief area is either one or two club-lengths from the reference point…” It does not state that the player must measure and mark that distance. When there is no Rule requiring that something be done, there is no requirement to do it.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1943-Hit provisional after beginning search

Dear Linda,

A player hit his tee shot into the trees. He started searching, but quickly (within one minute) abandoned the search and returned to the tee to hit a provisional ball. Another player found the ball within three minutes. Was the player permitted to hit a provisional ball after he had gone forward and begun searching for it?

Lou from New Jersey

Dear Lou,

Yes.

Interpretation 18.3a/2 (from the Official Guide) tells us that “if a player is able to return to the spot of his or her previous stroke and play a provisional ball before the three-minute search time has ended, the player is allowed to do so.”

It goes on to say, “If the player plays the provisional ball and the original ball is then found within the three-minute search time [as was the case in your question], the player must continue play with the original ball.”

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1942-Partner concedes putt to opponent in four-ball match

Linda,

Please let me know about this situation. We were playing the 18th hole in a competition with two concurrent matches – team and individual. My individual match was closed out but the team match was even. My individual-match opponent putted to two feet. I said I needed to see [him putt]. I had a 10-footer for bogey. I made my putt and my partner mistakenly thought I made par. My partner conceded the putt. I said that the putt is not conceded before the ball was picked up. My opponent said we could not take back the given putt. I think he should have putted. Can you tell me if he should have putted?

Thank you.

Lou from Bensalem, Pennsylvania

Dear Lou,

I certainly can.

Rule 3.2b(2) states unequivocally: “A concession is final and cannot be declined or withdrawn.”

Both you and your partner had the authority to concede your opponent’s putt in the better ball match. As soon as your partner conceded the putt to your opponent, the hole was completed for your opponent with a score that includes the conceded stroke. You are not entitled to withdraw the concession that your partner made.

I would advise, in team matches, that partners consult one another before conceding any putts. 

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1940a-Follow-up to #1940 (Moving a movable obstruction)

Hi Linda,

I was under the impression that you only had relief if the obstruction affects your stance, swing or stroke. The fact that it is in your line of play is unfortunate and you are not allowed relief for line of site. I would appreciate your comments.

Regards, 

Lou from South Australia

Dear Lou,

You are confusing movable obstructions with immovable obstructions. 

Movable obstructions are artificial objects such as player equipment, rakes, flagsticks, golf carts, and plastic bags. You may move movable obstructions out of your way, regardless of where they lie [Rule 15.2].

Immovable obstructions are artificial objects such as buildings, artificially surfaced paths, sprinkler heads, drains, and interior fences. You are entitled to free relief when such objects are on the course and interfere with your lie, stance, or area of intended swing (except when your ball lies in a penalty area). There is no free relief available from interference by an immovable obstruction on your line of play [Rule 16.1].

Note that integral objects  (artificial objects defined by the Committee as part of the challenge of playing the course) and boundary objects (such as stakes, walls, or fences) are not obstructions. There is no free relief from these objects.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1941-Relief from flooded bunker

Linda,

Under the new rules, if a bunker is completely filled with temporary water, can one get free relief by dropping one club length from the nearest point of relief outside the bunker or by taking back-on-the-line relief with no penalty? I know under the old rules it was just considered bad luck and you had to take a penalty if you dropped outside the bunker. Did this seemingly unfair rule change under the new rules?

Thanks,

Lou from St. Augustine, Florida

Dear Lou,

I am not aware of any Rule changes regarding flooded bunkers.

If no Local Rule has been adopted, the player is only entitled to free relief if he can find a spot in the bunker no closer to the hole to drop the ball. If he chooses to drop back on the line outside the bunker, he must add one penalty stroke to his score [Rule 16.1c].

If one or several bunkers are flooded, the Committee may adopt Model Local Rule F-16, which would allow free relief outside the bunker under Rule 16.1b by labeling specific bunkers as ground under repair in the general area. This Local Rule should identify which bunkers on the course are affected; the Committee may not adopt a Local Rule declaring all flooded bunkers to be ground under repair.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1940-Moving a movable obstruction

Hi Linda—I really appreciate your column.

My question relates to Movable Obstructions. Rule 15.2 says a player can remove a movable obstruction anywhere on the course. The Purpose section of Rule 15 says you are normally allowed to remove them when they interfere with your play. 

So what is “interference with play?”

Are line of sight (distracting the player) and line of play (flight of ball interference) obstructions under this Rule? For example, a ball in play lies 15 yards or so behind a removable yardage marker pole. Swing and stance are not obstructed, but the player is concerned the yardage marker may interfere with the flight of her ball. While it takes some time for her to do it, she removes it. 

Local officials have said movable obstructions are those that can be removed by “reasonable effort” or if they are “readily movable,” but I could not find where these terms are defined in golf. 

So, in the absence of stating otherwise, Rule 15.2 seems to allow removal of any movable obstruction for any  reason, regardless of 

—the distance between where the ball lies and the potential interference with play, and

—the time it takes for the player to remove the actual or potential obstruction. 

Do you agree?

Thanks very much. 

Lulu from Sacramento, California

Dear Lulu,

Yes, I agree, within reason.

Rule 15.2 allows the player to remove a movable obstruction anywhere on or off the course in any way (excluding tee markers when the ball is played from the teeing area and removing a movable obstruction that would affect a ball in motion). 

Movable Obstructions are defined as artificial objects that “can be moved with reasonable effort and without damaging the obstruction or the course.” This definition expects a modicum of common sense on the part of the golfer. If you need a shovel or a front-end loader to move the object, it does not meet the definition of “movable” under the Rules of Golf.

With regard to distance, we must again turn to common sense. A movable yardage marker 15 yards away on the player’s line of play is a legitimate distraction, and should take little time to remove; perhaps another player might be recruited to help out. A yardage marker 100 yards away would not receive the same treatment; removing such an object would be unreasonable, as it would significantly delay play. The requirement of Rule 5.6a that a player must not unreasonably delay play would be in effect.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1939-Accidentally move ball in play

Dear Linda,

On one of our competition days a lady was scraping away pine needles near her ball when she brushed her ball, moving it forward.

She let her marker know – she replaced her ball to its original spot and hit it.

Could you tell me the rule this action concerns and the penalty involved (if any)?

I have tried looking it up but the rule seems to get more complicated the more you look at it.

Thanking you,

Lulu from Australia

Dear Lulu,

The player gets a one-stroke penalty for accidentally moving her ball in play while brushing away loose impediments, and she must replace the ball [Rules 9.4b and 15.1b]. None of the exceptions to Rule 9.4b apply to this particular situation.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1938-Relief from immovable flag in penalty area

Hello Linda,

During our Club Championship tournament we had a situation that we

were stumped with. I hope you can clarify. Situation: Tee shot hit

towards a pond that is clearly marked with a flag, blue and white

checked, indicating water. The player finds her ball inches from the

flag that is inside the red penalty area. Her ball is outside the

penalty area. The flag was securely placed there by the club so that

it could not be removed. The player did not have a swing. Does she

get relief? Flag was INSIDE the penalty area, her ball was OUTSIDE

the penalty area. The player took an unplayable…was this

correct?

Thank you,

Lulu from South Carolina

Dear Lulu,

No.

You are entitled to free relief from an immovable obstruction inside a penalty area when your ball lies outside the penalty area. Had the ball been inside the penalty area, you would not be entitled to free relief [Rule 16.1a(2)].

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1937-After relief from penalty area, stance on cart path

Linda,

During this morning's round, my buddy hit his tee shot into a yellow-staked penalty area. He choose to take his drop on a narrow strip of grass between the hazard and cart path, knowing that he would have to stand on the cart path to take his shot. 

His drop resulted in a nearly perfect lie and he proceeded to hit his shot. As he was getting back into our cart, he asked me if his drop had resulted in a terrible lie would he then be able to take relief from the cart path (and thereby presumably get a better lie)? 

I thought it was an interesting question and I was not sure of the answer, and I have not been able to find the answer myself. If that is allowable, then it is a way to take 2 drops - thereby increasing your chance of getting a favorable lie.

Thanks,

Lou from Cherry Hill, New Jersey

Dear Lou,

Yes, your friend would be permitted to drop a second time to get free relief from the cart path.

I will assume that his first drop was back on the line and was properly dropped in the correct relief area and remained there. Once the ball was dropped correctly it was in play, and his relief from the penalty area was completed. Now he is faced with a new situation – interference by an immovable obstruction (cart path). He may play the ball as it lies with his stance on the cart path, or he may choose to take free relief under Rule 16.1. If the second drop improves the lie for his next shot, he is a lucky fellow and also a smart one for understanding the Rules and using them to his advantage. There’s nothing wrong with that!

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

#1936 corrected

Dear readers,

Please revisit yesterday's column. I have edited the last paragraph to correct the stroke count.

http://lindamillergolf.blogspot.com/2019/06/ask-linda-1936-provisional-ball-limit.html

Ask Linda 1936-Provisional ball limit

Hi Linda, 

How many provisional balls possible in one hole in case of several bad shots in repetition? 

Thanks,

Lou from Pakistan

Dear Lou,

There is no limit to the number of provisional balls a player may hit. Keep in mind that a provisional is only permitted for a ball that might be lost outside a penalty area or might be out of bounds [Rule 18.3a]. You may not continue to hit provisional balls after you hit a ball in bounds and findable.

Each provisional ball has the same relationship to the prior provisional ball as the first provisional has to the original. For example, if you hit three provisional balls, you don’t find your original ball or the first provisional, and you find both the second and third provisional balls, the second provisional ball is now your ball in play, and was your fifth shot on the hole. When you hit it again it will be your sixth shot on the hole (assuming the original ball was your first shot playing the hole). Do not count any shots with the third provisional ball.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1935-Ball drops into hole when flagstick moved

Hi Linda, 

As per the new rules I left the flagstick in the hole and putted. The ball came to rest between the side of the cup and the flagstick but was not totally below the surface. I pulled up the stick and the ball fell in the cup. Is this permitted?

Regards,

Lou from Pune, India

Dear Lou,

The ball is considered holed when it is at rest against the flagstick and any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green [Rule 13.2c]. Whether the ball falls into the hole or pops up out of it when you move or remove the flagstick has no bearing on the fact that your ball has already been holed.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1934-Relief for ball embedded in sod bunker wall

Hi Linda,

Some years ago I asked your opinion concerning a committee decision to allow for free relief from an embedded ball in a sod bunker wall without having to provide relief through the green. With your help it was decided to abandon this idea and we stayed with relief from closely mown areas only. An unplayable would be the only option outside of trying to hit it.

Now the golf gurus have decided that one gets relief from an embedded ball in the general area. Now we’re faced with the relief procedure related to bunker walls again. I understand the relief procedure as one club-length from the spot where the ball was embedded no nearer the hole. Sometimes this would allow for the ball to be dropped on the edge of the bunker, but sometimes one would be limited to a drop on the bunker wall which will likely end up in the sand below. Is the same procedure as before used where one tries to place the ball on the spot where the second drop hit the ground and if it won’t stay to find a spot nearest to the dropped spot no nearer to the hole where the ball will come to rest which might still be on the bunker wall?

Thanks as always.

Lou from Mississauga, Ontario 

Dear Lou,

Yes.

A sod bunker wall is not part of the bunker [Definition of “Bunker”]. It is in the general area, and the player is entitled to free relief if his ball is embedded. The reference point for free relief is the spot right behind  where the ball is embedded. The relief area is within one club-length of that spot, no closer to the hole, and it must be in the general area [Rule 16.3b]. If the dropped ball comes to rest outside the relief area after two tries, the player must place the ball on the spot where it hit the ground after the second drop [Rule 14.3c(2)]. If the ball will not remain on that spot after two tries, it must be placed on the nearest spot where it will remain at rest. That spot must be no closer to the hole and in the general area [Rule 14.2e].

Be aware that there was a clarification issued in December that requires both the reference point for relief and the relief area to be in the general area. If the ball were embedded at the very base of the bunker wall, the spot right behind the ball (the reference point) would be in the bunker. In such a circumstance the player would not be entitled to free relief from an embedded ball.

The player may declare the ball unplayable and choose one of the relief options available in Rule 19.2 (stroke and distance, back on the line, lateral), adding one penalty stroke to his score.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1933-Status of materials left on the course

Linda,

Today during a competition one of our fourball hit a wide sliced drive. It was found by one of our fourball in a rubbish dump where a variety of natural material had been dumped over time. It was clear it was not there to be removed imminently and probably never. It was not marked as GUR. I was aware that the player had retrieved his ball and that he dropped it outside of the dump. The player that found it informed me that a free drop had been taken because it was discarded rubbish. I was not sure that this was correct. The area was not marked as GUR and it seemed clear the rubbish tip was exactly that. We should of course have consulted the rulebook but were aware of a threeball on the tee that had been waiting some time and to let them through would have been futile as we were the last group of the competition. This player made a 6 for one point and won the competition.

Having returned home I have consulted the rulebook. Looking at the definition of GUR it seems clear that ‘other materials left on the course that have been abandoned and are not intended to be removed are not GUR unless so marked’. The question of abnormal ground conditions was muted but I felt this was not appropriate.

In my view the ball should have been deemed unplayable and available options for an unplayable ball taken under penalty.

Regards,

Lou from the UK

Dear Lou,

Your understanding is correct. There is no free relief from natural materials (e.g., leaves, tree branches) that are left on the course that are not intended to be removed unless they have been marked as ground under repair. A player seeking relief from such materials incurs a one-stroke penalty and may choose any of the relief options for an unplayable ball listed under Rule 19.

It is not uncommon for a golf course to dump natural debris at the far reaches of the golf course and leave it there to rot. A player who hits a poor shot that lands in such debris should not expect to escape unpunished.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1932-Play from wrong tees on nine-hole course

Hi Linda,

We had a social Stableford tournament with a shotgun start on a nine-hole course played twice from different-coloured tees. We had a group teeing off on each of the 9 tees. We advised the players to ensure they followed the holes in numerical order – if you start on blue tees on 8 you then play blue tees on 9 then go to red tees on 10. When you finish 18 you go back to blue tees for holes 1 to 7. First time this happened in a tournament it was reported by another group who had watched those behind play from the wrong tee. We checked the penalty for it in the Rules, realised they had not corrected their mistake before playing from the next tee and therefore had no option but to DQ them. As it was a social tournament it felt quite harsh but we did it anyway. In the tournament this weekend a group of four made the same mistake and they were good enough to come and tell us themselves that they had made the mistake. We felt we had no option but to DQ them as we had a precedent for it. Is there any other way of resolving this that you are aware of? The group involved was very gracious about it.

One of the complicating factors is that we have long drive contests on a couple of holes and nearest-to-the-pin contests, which of course adds to the confusion if a group gets mixed up.

We would be interested in your answer and appreciate your advice.

Lou from Auckland, New Zealand

Dear Lou,

The disqualification in Rule 6.1b(2) for starting play of a hole from the wrong set of tees and failing to correct that mistake before playing from the next hole does not apply to Stablefords. Instead of disqualification, the player who breaches Rule 6.1b(2) in a Stableford gets zero points for every hole where the breach happened [Rule 21.1c(2)]. 

In the example you gave of a player correctly playing from the blue tee markers for holes 8 and 9, and incorrectly playing from the blue markers for holes 10–18 and the red markers for holes 1–7, the only holes where this player could earn Stableford points would be holes 8 and 9. This would almost certainly preclude the player from winning any prize except a possible win for longest drive or closest to the pin, were those contests in effect on holes 8 or 9.

The Committee should try to do all within its power to make sure players understand which tee markers to use. I have four suggestions that might help, and I would recommend that you implement all of them:

1. In the written Terms of the Competition, be very clear in your explanation of which tees must be used and when.

2. On each player’s scorecard, indicate next to his starting hole which set of tee markers to start on. Highlight the tenth hole (or the first, if the player is starting on the “back” nine), and note that the player must now play from the other set of tees. 

3. When the starter addresses the group, he should bring everyone’s attention to the reminders on the scorecard, and state emphatically that the penalty for playing from the wrong set of tees is zero points on the hole.

4. Place a sign on the first/tenth hole reminding players to change to the other set of tees.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1931-Holding club next to body to help with alignment

Dear Linda,

Several ladies in my golf league have recently learned that placing (then removing) a golf club on the ground prior to hitting to help with alignment is no longer allowed (Rule 10-2). 

One has taken it a step further, however, and now says that holding a club across mid-thigh prior to hitting is also not allowed. I've been asked to confirm with you, our guru, whether this is truly the case.

As always, we appreciate your help and thanks for all that you do.

Lulu from Canton, Georgia

Dear Lulu,

There is no Rule that prohibits the player from holding a club across any part of her body to help with alignment. 

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1930-Leave ball in hole

Hi Linda,

Is there any penalty for a player that does not remove his ball out the cup but waits for the other players to finish their putt?

Thanks for your advice.

Lou from Belgium

Dear Lou,

No. There is no penalty for leaving your ball in the hole while others have yet to putt. Nor is there a penalty for putting your ball into a hole on top of another player’s ball. However, you should oblige any request from another player to remove your ball from the hole. If another player should inexplicably refuse to remove his ball after a request to do so, feel free to remove it yourself – once a ball is holed it is no longer in play.

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1929-Borrow partner’s club

Dear Linda,

The competition of the day this morning was handicap foursomes. On the 16^thhole – a par 3 – we have to walk back to the 17^th, so after getting near the green we park our buggies a fair way back. The girls we were with got into a bit of trouble round the green and after one had duffed a chip her partner played her shot with the same club her partner had used.

After a lot of discussion we decided that she had to go and get her club and then play the shot again adding 2 penalty strokes. Was this a correct ruling?

Thank you for your help

Lulu from South Australia

Dear Lulu,

Almost. The two-stroke penalty is correct, but the player does not replay the shot with her own club.

Partners in foursomes may share clubs only if the total number of clubs they have together is not more than 14 (e.g., Sally has eight clubs and Lucy has 6) [Rule 22.5].

Assuming this was not the case, a player is not permitted to make a stroke with another player’s club [Rule 4.1b(2)]. The penalty is two strokes. 

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1928-Ball unplayable in divot

Hi Linda,

Could you possibly clear this one up for me, please?

Hit a tee shot onto the fairway but the ball lands in a divot. I feel I cannot play the shot in case of injury. What are my options?

Very much obliged.

Lou from Wales, UK

Dear Lou,

If you do not wish to play your ball out of a divot – for whatever reason – you may declare it unplayable. This gives you three relief options, all of which include adding one penalty stroke to your score for the hole:

1. Stroke and distance.Play a ball from where you hit your previous stroke [Rule 19.2a].

2. Back on the line. Drop a ball in a relief area described in Rule 19.2b.

3. Lateral. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot of the original ball, no closer to the hole [Rule 19.2c].

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.

Ask Linda 1927-Putter contacts ball twice

Hi Linda,

During a round with my brother, he proceeded to make a very short putt (only 12 inches from the hole) and after he hit the ball his putter continued through and his putter clipped his ball a 2nd time before the ball rolled into the hole. Is this counted as 2 strokes, or with the new rule that if you clip a ball a 2nd time with the same stroke it is no longer considered a double stroke?

Cheers,

Lou from Canada

Dear Lou,

There is no longer a penalty if your club (any club) accidentally contacts the ball a second time with one swing. Count the accidental double hit as one stroke [Rule 10.1a].

Linda

Copyright © 2019 Linda Miller. All rights reserved.